Tough Bananas

After reading this post, I had a lively discussion with a friend of mine about the last image in the sequence:

Here is the IM string convo:

[12:31 PM] wkdown: http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/06/martian_skies.html
[12:32 PM] wkdown: check out the bottom one
[12:32 PM] insanehome: i just saw that. pretty awesome
[12:32 PM] wkdown: of Earth and the Moon “from Mars”
[12:32 PM] * wkdown calls bullshit if no zoom was used
[12:32 PM] insanehome: yeah
[12:32 PM] insanehome: lol
[12:33 PM] wkdown: granted, Mars is half the size of the Earth … but I sure as hell dont see Mars like that
[12:33 PM] wkdown: nor have I seen “Mars from Earth orbit” like that
[12:33 PM] wkdown: plus it looks like the camera (again if no zoom is used) is closer to Earth than the Moon
[12:34 PM] insanehome: problem is there is no frame of reference to figure any of that out
[12:34 PM] wkdown: plus they say 5:20am MST
[12:35 PM] wkdown: which means near the edge of the light side is Colorado et al
[12:35 PM] wkdown: I see no landmass
[12:35 PM] wkdown: I only see blue
[12:35 PM] wkdown: part 3, wtf are teh starz
[12:36 PM] wkdown: not enough incoming light to require a longer than normal exposure to get SOME stars
[12:37 PM] insanehome: i’ll answer somw after i’m done stuffing my face
[12:37 PM] wkdown: lol
[12:37 PM] wkdown: it you would be so kind
[12:37 PM] wkdown: if*
[12:39 PM] wkdown: Where are the stars? The background should be full of stars very crystal clear and numbering in the billions. Why does NASA like to blackout the stars? What are they hiding?
Posted by Merkhava June 20, 08 01:19 PM
[12:39 PM] wkdown: apparently I’m not the only one
[12:42 PM] insanehome: ok… so take off the tin foil hat. You ever take a picture of the night sky? Especially from some place with very little light pollution from a city?
[12:44 PM] wkdown: tr00
[12:44 PM] insanehome: it’s hard as fuck and not much turns out right?
[12:44 PM] wkdown: forget teh stars tho … my other points require more explanation
[12:44 PM] wkdown: u need a longer exposure cuz teh atmosphere filters em out
[12:44 PM] wkdown: but thats from space
[12:45 PM] wkdown: which is a vaccuum
[12:45 PM] insanehome: right. but the principle still holds the same. The brightness of the foreground objects requires less exposure and are brighter than any background objects.
[12:45 PM] insanehome: you also don’t know if the sun is rising in front of you or on the other side of the planet.
[12:46 PM] wkdown: I know the direction we circle the planet and the direction the planet rotates
[12:46 PM] wkdown: circle teh sun
[12:46 PM] wkdown: lol
[12:46 PM] insanehome: lol
[12:46 PM] insanehome: right but none of that info can be determined from what little info you have here
[12:46 PM] wkdown: no, I dont believe the universe orbits teh Earth
[12:46 PM] insanehome: we have 1/4 of the planet lit up
[12:47 PM] insanehome: i see land mass on it. But it’s cloudy and too hard to make out what that mass is
[12:47 PM] wkdown: which means the sun if off to the right
[12:48 PM] wkdown: and because of the position of the moon, direction of the sunlight, and inclination fo the earth
[12:48 PM] wkdown: the Earth would be moving towards the craft as it orbits the sun
[12:48 PM] wkdown: which means it is twisting away from us as it rotates
[12:48 PM] wkdown: so we are seeing the morning side, not the evening side
[12:49 PM] insanehome: ok. even still I see brown so I’m assuming that’s land mass. Sad thing is this is a low res image
[12:49 PM] insanehome: find me the hires
[12:50 PM] insanehome: 3rdly. This is a black and white image photoshopped with color
[12:50 PM] insanehome: all nasa photos are put out in B&W and photoshopped to highlight details
[12:51 PM] insanehome: at least from satallites
[12:51 PM] insanehome: or at least that was my understanding of all galazy shots. this one may be different
[12:52 PM] wkdown: u cant find a HiRes because its a BS pic
[12:52 PM] insanehome: riiiight
[12:52 PM] wkdown: I can find others easy enough
[12:52 PM] insanehome: k
[12:52 PM] insanehome: find one with two solar objects and stars in the back ground
[12:52 PM] wkdown: NASA, JPL, ESA, astronomy blogs … always full of HiRes shots
[12:52 PM] wkdown: especially things like that
[12:52 PM] wkdown: EXACTLY!!
[12:52 PM] wkdown: u cant find those
[12:53 PM] insanehome: because we’ve never taken them!
[12:53 PM] wkdown: sure, you see telescopic pics of nebulae and galaxies
[12:53 PM] wkdown: but what about the sky from a vantage point OTHER than Earth or Earth orbit (where the telescopes are)
[12:53 PM] insanehome: what?
[12:54 PM] wkdown: u never get those
[12:54 PM] insanehome: are you talking about from Hubble?
[12:54 PM] wkdown: Hubble is in Earth orbit
[12:54 PM] insanehome: right
[12:54 PM] wkdown: I mean gimmie a shot from Phoenix, or Cassini-Huygens, or Voyager, or anything that has left Earth’s gravity far behind
[12:54 PM] wkdown: even teh moon!
[12:55 PM] wkdown: I’ll accept teh moon
[12:55 PM] insanehome: I thought these were from Phoenix
[12:55 PM] wkdown: Earth and Moon from Mars? thats an ESA orbiter I think
[12:55 PM] wkdown: over Mars
[12:56 PM] insanehome: I didn’t think Cassini-Huygens had a camera capable of taking a shot back that far
[12:56 PM] insanehome: Voyager is way too far now and I don’t think it was ever intended for a far shot so it would have been a waste of energy
[12:56 PM] wkdown: compare http://images.google.com/images?q=mars+sunset&hl=en&imgsz=huge results to http://images.google.com/images?imgsz=huge&hl=en&q=earth+from+mars&btnG=Search+Images results
[12:56 PM] wkdown: Earth from Mars is BS
[12:57 PM] insanehome: sure sure sure
[12:57 PM] wkdown: see all the HiRes of Mars sunset?
[12:57 PM] wkdown: if you dont like my “earth from mars” search terms, try your own
[12:57 PM] insanehome: lol
[12:58 PM] wkdown: I’m not one of those “we never landed on the moon” crazies … I just dont understand why we dont have one single shot with background stars not from within Earth orbit
[12:58 PM] wkdown: not one
[12:58 PM] wkdown: every shot u see stars can be plotted against an Earth starchart
[12:59 PM] insanehome: because of luminosity of the forground objects
[12:59 PM] insanehome: and the dimness of the stars
[12:59 PM] wkdown: ah, but thats why I dont talk about shots like this http://www.somewhereville.com/gnw/tas/mar.jpg for that very reason
[13:00 PM] wkdown: but when less than 10% is the earth and moon, you should see SOMEstars
[13:00 PM] wkdown: yeah, it wont be full of stars, but fuck you’d see a handful at least
[13:00 PM] insanehome: no i don’t think you would
[13:00 PM] wkdown: gimmie a dim pixel or something
[13:00 PM] wkdown: dont just #000 the whole thing
[13:01 PM] insanehome: lol i don’t think they did
[13:01 PM] insanehome: I think you’d loose any of that detail the second you drop it down to 72dpi
[13:01 PM] insanehome: it’s to low res an image to say for sure
[13:01 PM] wkdown: I highly doubt any agency’s probes are outfitted with cameras at 72dpi
[13:02 PM] wkdown: u cant find the HiRes cuz they cleaned it up or something, figured it was too obvious it was doctored, and only released a LoRes
[13:03 PM] wkdown: or its BS completely, just a fabrication of a shot of the Earth and a shot of the moon imposed on a black BG
[13:03 PM] insanehome: no way. I don’t buy it.
[13:03 PM] insanehome: it’s too tin foil hat for me
[13:04 PM] insanehome: even if they did. They blacked it out because they wanted the focus to be on the earth and moon
[13:04 PM] wkdown: it would already be on the Earth and moon
[13:04 PM] wkdown: thats a comelling shot
[13:05 PM] wkdown: like the one Voyager took as it passed Pluto orbit, where we are like one pixel
[13:05 PM] insanehome: what reason would they have to black that all out?
[13:05 PM] wkdown: that I dont know
[13:05 PM] wkdown: kinda like Scientology in that way
[13:05 PM] wkdown: they’re hiding something, what or why? I dunno, buit they are
[13:05 PM] insanehome: yeah they’re hiding the murders of people that they commited!
[13:06 PM] wkdown: lol
[13:06 PM] insanehome: this i dunno. it doesn’t make sense that they would need to. I’ve taken enough pictures of people in different scenarios where I could believe that you couldn’t see the stars because the near objects were too bright
[13:06 PM] wkdown: I honestly can’t think of a reason to hide the stars that isnt, as you put it, “tin foil hat” … but its hard to argue my logic